Another fascinating interview is in store for you today and this time we have best-selling fantasy author, Michael J Sullivan in the hot-seat. A very interesting and generous writer who has taken the time to answer my questions about self-publishing and achieving success in today's tough publishing market-place. As usual, please make sure to check out Michael's links and books at the bottom of the interview and also take advantage of the subscription offer. His Amazon biography describes him as thus (abridged):
After finding a manual typewriter in the basement of a friend's
house, Michael J. Sullivan inserted a blank piece of paper and typed: It
was a dark and stormy night. He was just eight years old and mimicking
the greatest (or only) writer he knew at the time...Snoopy. That spark
ignited a flame and the desire to fill blank pages would become a
life-long obsession. As an adult, Michael spent more than ten years
developing his craft by studying authors such as Stephen King, Ernest
Hemingway, and John Steinbeck. During that time, he wrote thirteen
novels but found no traction in publishing. He did the only sane thing
he could think of (since insanity is repeating the same act but
expecting a different result), he quit and vowed never to write
creatively again.
Michael stayed away from writing for a decade and returned to the keyboard in his forties...but with one condition: he wouldn't seek publication. Instead, he wrote a series of books that had been building in his head over his hiatus. His first reading love was fantasy, and his hope was to help foster a love of reading in his then thirteen-year-old daughter, who struggled due to severe dyslexia. After reading the third book of this series, his wife insisted the novels needed to "get out there." When Michael refused to jump back onto the query-go-round, she took over the publication tasks and has run "the business side" of his writing ever since.
Michael is one of the few authors who has successfully published through all three routes: small press, self, and big five. Some key accomplishments of his career include:
* Named to io9's Most Successful Self-Published Sci-Fi and Fantasy authors
* Sold more than half a million English copies
* Been translated into twelve foreign languages
* Spent more than a year on Amazon's Bestselling Fantasy Author's list
* His Death of Dulgath Kickstarter is the third-highest funded fiction project of all time.
* Had his books named to more than 100 "best of" or "most anticipated" lists including those compiled by Library Journal, Barnes and Noble, Goodreads.com, and Audible.com
Today, Michael continues to fill blank pages with nine released novels, six awaiting publication, and a new series in the developmental stages.
Michael stayed away from writing for a decade and returned to the keyboard in his forties...but with one condition: he wouldn't seek publication. Instead, he wrote a series of books that had been building in his head over his hiatus. His first reading love was fantasy, and his hope was to help foster a love of reading in his then thirteen-year-old daughter, who struggled due to severe dyslexia. After reading the third book of this series, his wife insisted the novels needed to "get out there." When Michael refused to jump back onto the query-go-round, she took over the publication tasks and has run "the business side" of his writing ever since.
Michael is one of the few authors who has successfully published through all three routes: small press, self, and big five. Some key accomplishments of his career include:
* Named to io9's Most Successful Self-Published Sci-Fi and Fantasy authors
* Sold more than half a million English copies
* Been translated into twelve foreign languages
* Spent more than a year on Amazon's Bestselling Fantasy Author's list
* His Death of Dulgath Kickstarter is the third-highest funded fiction project of all time.
* Had his books named to more than 100 "best of" or "most anticipated" lists including those compiled by Library Journal, Barnes and Noble, Goodreads.com, and Audible.com
Today, Michael continues to fill blank pages with nine released novels, six awaiting publication, and a new series in the developmental stages.
Here he is, folks. The inimitable, Michael J Sullivan:
Do
you think that your life experience has gone someway towards making you a
successful author in your chosen genre?
Yes,
in many ways all that has occurred during my life has been a contributing
factor to my success. It’s taken me decades to find my voice and polish my
story-telling style, but more importantly the skills related to marketing,
design, and promotion also took years to perfect. My “day job” before I became
a full-time novelist was running my advertising agency. Doing that gave me
experience in layout, design, and marketing.
You
are what is commonly referred to as a ‘hybrid author.’ Can you please explain
whether you agree with this and whether or not this was a conscious decision on
your part?
Yes,
a hybrid is the best description for how I approach publishing. For those who
aren’t familiar with the term, it’s an author who utilizes both self-publishing
and traditional. It would help to explain a bit about my publishing history.
· 2008 – Book #1 of The Riyria
Revelations was published by a small press
· 2009 - 2010 Book #1 - #5 of The Riyria Revelations
were self-published
· 2011 – 201 2: Book #1 - #6 of
The Riyria Revelations re-released by big-five
· 2013 – Book #1 & #2 – of
The Riyria Chronicles released by big-five
· 2014 – Hollow World – released
by self (ebook) and small press (print book)
· 2015 – Book #3 of The Riyria
Chronicles self-published
· 2016 – Book #1 of The First Empire
released by big-five
· 2017 - Book #2 of the First Empire released by
big-five and at least one book self-published.
As
you can see, I have utilized small presses, the big-five traditional
publishers, and self-publishing over the course of the last eight years. It is
definitely a conscious decision, as I think it diversifies my offerings and
provides for the greatest amount of flexibility. For each project, I determine
what I think would be the best for my career and evaluate potential income, and
then I decide which route to take.
A
common trait I have noticed, amongst the work of some of the biggest and
best-selling authors who self-publish, is that they are ‘World Creators.’ You
are no exception – your books are set in fantastical and futuristic worlds that
envelope your readers. The fact that many of the top self-published authors
create and write within these worlds leads me to believe that this way of
writing lends itself strongly, to solid story strands that translate nicely
into both extended series and devout fans and to a certain appeasement of the
Amazon gods in terms of the promotion of those series. Do you write an origin
story with a future series in mind or is it more of an organic process because
of the way you build such a strong setting/world in the first book?
To
date, I’ve written series mostly, but I do so in a very unusual way. I write
all the books before publishing any of them. For instance my first series, The Riyria Revelations was a
six-novel story arc, and I finished writing the last book before the first one
was published. I just finished a new series, The First Empire (5 books). Even
though the first book, The Age of Myth, won’t be released until June 2016, I’ve
finished all five books this April.
I
do have one book, Hollow World, which is a standalone novel. That being said, I
left some room to revisit that world and characters if the readership wanted
more. It would appear that they do, so I’ll probably be writing a second story
in that universe starting next year.
How
important are books written within a series to your success as a best-selling
author?
I
think series are very important to my success. First, it is common in fantasy
and science fiction to create epic tales that require several full-length
novels to tell. But more importantly, it’s hard to make a living with just one
book. Three seems to be the magic number as far as the number required to start
obtaining a substantial readership. When they are all in the same series, it’s
easy to get someone to go from one to the next (assuming the first one has
entertained and/or touched them).
Otherwise, you have to find a new audience with each standalone book,
and that is a lot more work.
Once
you have decided that self-publishing might be your route, what financial and
artistic considerations should you keep in mind before you begin?
I’m
a firm believer that if you go the self-published route, you MUST produce a
work that is every bit as good as anything coming from New York. That means an
attractive, professional cover and flawless editing. A self-published book has
to be twice as good to get half the credit. A typo or two in a traditionally
published book is looked upon as a “minor mistake.” The same typos in a
self-published book are held up as proof that self-published authors need
better editing. Going self doesn’t
mean “taking the easy way.” It means just the opposite. So if you can’t produce
a book with exceptional quality – I say don’t bother. All that being said, you also have to keep in mind budgetary
considerations. It doesn’t make sense to spend $2,000 releasing a book that
will only net $500. So you have to
spend your money wisely. If you
shop around you can budget around $800 and get good results for both cover and
editing. To me, that’s probably the lowest amount you should expect.
What
kind of marketing did you do to establish your author brand and what do you
think is the most successful marketing for self-published authors? Is there any
one thing that you have determined has helped you sell more books – i.e. could
you outline your path to establishing your brand and your most successful sales
method/s?
It’s
impossible to sum up years of marketing experience in a paragraph. But I can
point out some resources that should help. One of the areas that I’ve found the
best results from is Goodreads. It’s a site dedicated to books and is a perfect
environment to find readers. There’s a lot to do there:groups to join, giveaways
to run, talking to people who have read and reviewed your books. It can be
somewhat overwhelming. I suggest people check out an article I wrote in the Feb
2015 edition of Writer’s Digest as a good place to start. I also have some
online guides on the right-hand side of reddit’s write2publish sub
(https://www.reddit.com/r/Write2Publish/).
You
have some fantastic book covers. How important do you think cover design is to
a potential reader and how big a part do you think it has played in your
success to date?
Nothing
will hold back a good book more than a bad cover. If someone can tell a book is
self-published by looking at it, then you’ve put yourself at a significant
disadvantage. Remember what I said about producing a book using the same
standards of traditional publishers. That means that the cover of your
self-published book has to stand toe-to-toe with anything that comes out from
New York. With a bad cover, you have to work so much harder to convince people
that what is inside the covers is worth their time. A good cover clears that
obstacle and puts the focus on the writing not its package.
Do
you think it is important for self-published authors to identify and write in a
niche market that they may have an interest in, in order to establish themselves
as a leader in that genre and sell more books?
I
don’t know that I’m expert on selling books across a broad spectrum. All I can
speak to is what has worked for me. First and foremost I think you have to
write what you love. Otherwise, the lack of passion will show in your work. For
instance, erotica has always done well in self-publishing, and if I cared only
about money, I might consider writing for that audience. But I’d fail in that
genre as (a) I don’t know the market well and (b) they aren’t the stories I
want to tell. The people who do well in that market do so because they are
passionate about those stories. There are going to be writers whose books are
going to be “too niche” or “too broad” and they will probably struggle, and may
never be commercial successes. It’s just a fact of life. If that describes you,
then you need to find your rewards by the journey rather than the destination,
and there is nothing wrong with that.
What
avenues of self-promotion did you find to be most effective and affordable?
What’s the best ‘bang-for-your-buck’ advertising you have employed?
Without
question, a Goodreads Giveaway is the best “bang-for-your-buck.” For the cost
of printing and shipping a book you can get hundreds, or even thousands of
people to know it exists. I just
concluded a giveaway for my new novel, The Death of Dulgath which had 4,186
people interested. The one before
that (The Age of Myth (previously called Rhune) had 9,243 people sign up. Now, a new author can’t expect that
kind of result. But even when I was an unknown author, I was pulling in 500 –
800 readers. That’s quite a bit, especially considering that I could message
each one afterward and offer them a free short story. Doing that was very
successful in getting people into my series.
In
your opinion, is traditional publishing on the way out? Do you think that
traditional publishing can continue to keep up with the rise of
self-publishing?
No,
I don’t think traditional publishing is on the way out, but I do think self is now
just as viable as traditional. It depends on what your goals are and what
capabilities you have. If, for instance, you can’t put out a high-quality
self-published book, then I think you should go traditional. Yes, you’ll lose a
big cut of the profits, but the book will be professionally produced, and you
have to start with that or you have nothing. As for traditional “keeping up” with self-publishing…the
answer is they can’t...but they don’t need to. Let me explain. “Keeping up” implies they can match the
output of self – and that’s just not possible. There are only so many books
they can curate in any given year, and it will always be a very small fraction
of the self-published books released. Traditional publishing’s business model
is much different than self. It has always had a limited bandwidth, and that
works for their model. The bigger concern to traditional publishing isn’t an
influx of self-published titles. If anything, that helps them out. The danger is a decrease in readership
as people turn to other forms of leisure…video games, television, movies, etc.
Would
you ever consider signing all your books to a traditional publishing house or
will you always manage some of your titles yourself through self-publishing?
I
would like to have more self-published titles then I currently do. There were
times in my career that I was 100% self, and that provides a great deal of
freedom and a lot fewer hassles. When I sold my first self-published works to
the big-five, my intension was to self-publish all future books. So far, that
hasn’t happened. The first offer I got on my second series had me heading for
self-publishing, but then an offer came in that made traditional a better
choice. For my third series, I
also intended to take that self, but again another offer came along that I just
couldn’t pass up. Still, my most
recent work is going out the self-published route and I do have several new
projects I plan on self-publishing. Whether they will or not will depend on
many factors including how my career is progressing and which route I think
will make the most amount of sense.
But no, I don’t suspect I’ll ever be 100% traditional.
Have
you ever used free book promotions? Do you think they are a worth-while
marketing tool for self-published authors? If so/not – why?
There
was a three-week period back in 2010 when I put my second novel to free. In
general, I’m not a fan of free novels as it is a large potential loss for the
author. What I do believe strongly
in is free short stories. I have two shorts free on Audible (The Jester and
Professional Integrity). And I have some free shorts in ebook (including the
Riyria Sampler, which has four little shorts in it). But I say all that with regards to my writing. For some
authors, the free first book is essential for their careers, and it works well
for them. Each author is going to be slightly different. The best advice I can
give is to be self-aware about your audience and what you need to do to lower
the barrier for them to try your stuff. At the beginning of your career, free
books may be a needed incentive, but as your readership grows, you should be
able to go without it.
Do
you feel there’s a good sense of community within the self-publishing industry?
Absolutely.
I find the self-published authors are extremely open and share a great deal,
something I’ve not seen much of with traditional authors. In particular, the
Writer’s CafĆ© of Kindle boards (kboards.com) is especially helpful.
Many
self-published authors (and many traditional authors) have a strong support
network, the most important member usually being a spouse or partner who
provides financial stability in the early stages of the author’s career. Your
wife has been instrumental in handling the publishing tasks and runs the ‘business
side’ of your career which gives you the freedom to write. Do you think this is
an essential aspect of successful writers’ careers and do you think you would
have the success you have enjoyed to date without such support?
There
is no doubt that I couldn’t have been successful without Robin’s support. Does every author have that? Sadly, no.
Can you be successful without it? Yes, but it will be harder. I find the “business
side” overhead to be about the same in self and traditional…the tasks are
different, but the time away from writing is about the same. So, it’s not like
there is more burden with self than traditional on that front. I’m fortunate as
I don’t have to concern myself with agents, publishers, publicists, etc. Robin
handles all that. It puts me in an exceptional position for writing. Bottom
line. I wish every author had what I do, and no you can’t have Robin. She’s
mine.
What
would you say is the single biggest advantage of deciding to self-publish?
Control.
I just spoke about the “overhead” being about the same between the traditional
and self. A lot of that has to do with constant conversations Robin has with
the publisher about things we would like to do but can’t. Want to lower the price temporarily? The publisher says no. Want to distribute the books free of
DRM? The publisher says no. Would
you like the book included in a Humble Bundle? Nope. Don’t like the cover
created? Too bad, you don’t have a
say. Would you like a different
format (say hardcover or mass market paperback)? Again you don’t have any input
into such things. When you are
with a traditional publisher, there is a lot of “hoping” they’ll do things you
want them to do. Sometimes they do, but many times they do not. And it can be extremely frustrating.
You
have successfully used crowd-funding (Kickstarter) to drive some of your
projects forward in the past. What are the main pros and cons for a
self-published author in using such platforms to fund their projects?
The
pros of Kickstarting is the sense of “community” that the backers generate.
They feel a part of the creation process and are as proud as I am with the
success of the book. They are enthusiastic, and it’s great seeing everyone
pulling to meet that next stretch goal. They also provide early reviews and
help with generating pre-release “buzz.”
The
cons are that it won’t work for everyone. People who have no audience will find
it difficult to fund. So, my suggestion is you shouldn’t Kickstart your first
novel. Once you get a few under
your belt, and you have a following that’s when you should consider one.
You
have many of your books available in audio format – do you think audio books
are worth investing in for self-published authors? I.e. is it a revenue stream
that pays dividends in your opinion?
Again,
it’s hard for me to discuss generalities, as I’m only an expert with regards to
my books and my career. For me, they surpassed my wildest expectations, but I’ve
also been on the top of the bestsellers there and one thing about the top – is
not everyone is going to get there. The best thing I can say is if you have a
good strong ebook/print audience the chances of a good audio audience is good
as well. But when you do it, do so with that same attention to professionalism
I spoke of elsewhere. That means hiring a top-notch narrator and using a
professional studio for recording and mastering. If you try to do it “on the
cheap.” I don’t think it will be successful.
How
important do you think social media and a strong active online presence is, to
becoming a success as a self-published author?
It
depends on how you define “social media” – if you define it as having a
Facebook page and tweeting to “buy my book” I think that will tend to be
counterproductive. If you mean
having tools that help you connect with your readership…well that’s a whole
different story. I think authors
today are fortunate in that they have so many ways to CONNECT with readers. To
me, such venues help to do that, and I think making connections is just as
important to a self-published author as it is a traditionally published one. It
comes down to what you do with those tools.
Are
you in regular contact with other self-published authors and how important was
any input you may have received early on in your career? Do you have a
mentor in terms of your self-publishing success – someone who may have inspired
you to ‘give it a go’?
There
are a few authors I’m in touch with regularly, some are self-published, some
are traditional, and a very few do a bit of both. All of my contacts came after I started publishing, so it
didn’t help build the career…but now that I have a career it’s nice to chat,
compare notes, and talk about what’s going on in the industry. As for
mentorship, it has tended to be the other way around. I mentor a lot of people,
but I was a bit of a trailblazer, so my work was pretty much on my own.
Do
you think self-published authors need to become effective business people, by treating
self-publishing as a business, in order to succeed and secure their financial
independence?
Yes,
I do believe self-published authors have to concern themselves with both the “craft
of writing” and the “business of publishing.” As I said above, you have to put
out something with every bit of quality that “real” publishers do – so you need
a bit of entrepreneurship in you. Those that prefer “working for the man”
probably will never be a good fit for the type of maverick nature that good
self-publishing requires.
Where
to from here? Are
you currently represented by an agent and are you working with any publishers
on future projects?
I
recently changed agents, and am currently represented by Joshua Bilmes’
JABberwocky Agency. Just prior to signing on with them, I sold four books to
Del Rey. This includes the first three books of The First Empire series (Age of
Myth will be released in June 2016), and one more yet to be determined book to
be set in my fictional world of Elan.
That could be a fourth Royce and Hadrian Riyria book or one of about a
half-dozen other books I already have planned out in that world. Del Rey will be releasing my books
yearly, so I’ll be writing (and probably self-publishing) other books as they
do their releases. As I said, I have all five of the First Empire novels
written, and I’ll have plenty more finished over the four years of that
contract. Currently, I’m in beta
with my third Riyria Chronicle (The Death of Dulgath) which I plan on having
out before the end of the year via self-publishing.
Can
you offer any advice to fellow writers if you could go back in time and “do it
all over?” What’s your top tip for other indie authors?
The
only thing that I think I did wrong was when I gave up. I had spent about a
decade writing and had thirteen completed novels. When I couldn’t find any
traction in publishing, I quit. I
didn’t start writing again until a decade later, and I only did so with the
belief that I wouldn’t be publishing. Ironically, it was those books that put
me on the map. So I guess my best advice is to realize that the only way to
ensure failure is to quit trying. If something doesn’t catch…write something
else. Keep working on improving
your skills and keep telling stories, and that will significantly increase your
chances of success.
Finally,
thanks for sharing your thoughts on self-publishing. Where is the best place
for readers to find your books?
Thanks
for having me, and for asking such great questions. This is where people can
connect with me.
Website:
www.riyria.com
Twitter:
@author_sullivan
A small selection of Michael's books (click image to purchase)
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